How to Get Started Writing A Book, With Asha Dornfest

Asha Dornfest is on the podcast talking about how to get started writing a book. And that’s perfect, since she began her writing career in the early days of online writing and has kept up with every new trend ever since. She has blogged, is well-published and now has a stellar podcast.  Listen in as we talk with her and get some tips for our listeners about how to have a writing life.

Read along as you listen to this episode of QWERTY, my podcast with co-host David Leite. You can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes, Spotify or Stitcher.

Marion Roach: Today, we’re talking with Asha Dornfest, author of Parent Hacks: 134 Genius Shortcuts For Life With Kids, and cohost of the Edit Your Life podcast. Hey David, how are you?

David Leite: I’m good, Marion. How are you?

Marion Roach: Good. And let me introduce you to Asha.

David: Hi, Asha.

Asha Dornfest: Hello. Hello, how are you?

David: I’m doing well. How are you?

Asha: Oh, great. I’m thrilled to be here.

Marion: Asha and I met at a conference a couple of years ago and I immediately became an enormous fan. She has an arc of her career that I think will fascinate everyone who’s listening. Asha, let’s just get right into it. I mean, your book is wonderful, but let’s just scroll back for a second and talk about how all this started. You started blogging in 2005, when did you start blogging?

Asha: In fact, I started blogging in 2004, like we can’t even take any old school months away from my blogging career, but my sort of major foray into blogging really did start at the end of 2005.

Marion: And so you needed some community, some companionship, some commiseration because you had small people. What was the situation at home?

Asha: Well, right. I was a relatively new parent. I mean, not a totally new parent. My son was approaching kindergarten, my daughter was a toddler and the transition to parenting had been really difficult for me, and I just never really found the kind of in person community that I felt like just sort of understood what was going on. I felt isolated, I felt alone, and I happened to be at this moment in history when blogs were really just taking off. And it really occurred to me that a blog could be more than just a personal journal, which was how most people were using them at the time. It could be really the sort of basis for a community, a back and forth conversation.

Asha: And so I started a blog called Parent Hacks, which was all about the little sort of tips and life hacks, and weird little shortcuts that I’d figured out, or that other parents had figured out. And I thought, “I’ll share those, people can share what they figured out and let’s see what we come up with.” Because the fact is the parenting just doesn’t really look like it looked in those expert books I was reading at the time. It just didn’t. I’m like, “I don’t know who they’re writing about, but that sure doesn’t sound like me or my kid.”

Marion: No, I could never find the page for how to remove a booger from your silk shirt.

Asha: Yeah.

David: Yeah.

Marion: Yeah, in the books I was reading. So David, you’ll be glad to know that a lot of these 134 genius shortcuts for life with kids also apply to real life. So I think you’ll be pleased to learn a couple of things from Asha today.

David: Yeah, because Asha, see, I’m not a parent and I’m probably a very, very bad uncle, and so I thought… I did really like the tip that said, if your bra doesn’t fit, wear a bikini top. I liked that. I thought that was very clever.

Asha: Well it’s exceedingly practical for you, David.

David: Yes, with my man boobs, I think it’s a very smart thing. But what I wanted to ask you is, I know this is about parenting, but you must have some tips for someone like me who is childless and that I could also hack my life away with.

Asha: Well, it’s funny, actually back in the sort of depth of Parent Hacks‘ years, when I was really sharing multiple parenting hacks everyday, which by the way came from the community. It was not some sort of editorially driven publication. It was really people just emailing me their tips. I found out that a lot of people followed the site who were not parents at all. They were like, “Boy, this is actually really useful to figure out that if I put the ketchup under the hot dog, as opposed to on top of the hot dog, it doesn’t score it on me.” Things like that.

Marion: How about teaching David how to cook a dinner in a hotel room using an iron, that one was the one that just made me just laugh so hard.

David: Yeah, tell me how to do that. I was just in a hotel and I had an iron.

Asha: And it’s not just an iron. You can use that coffee maker too, I’m telling you.

Marion: That’s great. I just love it. David, you’ve got to pick up the book and start using these hacks. My favorite is how to remove the temporary tattoo using a baby wipe, because it seems like my child came home with temporary tattoos every day for a while, and I learned that one from you. So I love that. It’s great.

So you took this wonderful blog, this successful blog, you started going to… Didn’t you go to BlogHer? It was your first conference, I think in 2006. Like a year, a year and a half after you’ve been blogging, you get to a conference. When did you have the aha moment that I should write a book?

Asha: That’s a really interesting question because I came to blogging as someone who had already written many books. So before I was a parent, I wrote believe it or not, books about the internet and web publishing, how to create a webpage. So I had been on the internet for a very, very long time. So I really came to blogging as a writer, not just as a parent who was looking for community.

It’s interesting, my career really in many ways tracks the history of the blogosphere. So I started blogging, not right at the beginning, but pretty near the beginning. And then really at a certain point, say in like 2008, 2009, 2010, things really took off, and people were like, “Ah, blogs, these are a big thing.” So I was actually approached by a number of different book publishers early on in the history of Parent Hacks.

And I actually decided against writing a book because I felt like the whole dynamism and energy and magic of Parent Hacks really was the two way conversation happening. Not only was I posting, but people were commenting back and emailing me. And I thought to myself, “Really what Parent Hacks represents is a conversation, not some sort of static list of tips sitting on a bookshelf somewhere.” So it really was more about the community than it was even about the content.

So I actually resisted writing a book for a long time, even though I got quite a few offers from publishers, it was pretty nice. I mean, I would get emails from publishers. And it wasn’t until Workman Publishing approached me right… I would say it was like 2014 when I first got that email, my mind had really changed because at that point the whole social media landscape had changed, how parents used the internet had changed. And it really felt to me like in some ways that parenting conversation was happening all over social media and other places, and the need for my blog wasn’t as keen as it was when I started it.

And I think that’s just fine. I mean certain things like blogs have lifespans and mine was nearing the end of its lifespan. And I wanted to honor what I thought was something incredible that had happened during that period of time, that I don’t think could happen again actually on a blog. Maybe it could. And I saw that this book was a way to do that. It was a way to turn what happened on the blog into something tangible, something people could hold. Folks that had been involved in the blog for years could pick it up and say, “Hey, I was part of this.” And that was the reason why I turned Parent Hacks into a book.

David: So, let’s talk about craft. You had the blog, you also had this crowdsourced material, and you had to put into a book. What was the process for you and how did you curate what needed to be in the book? And also you have illustrations. So talk about that process.

Asha: Okay, sure. That was the hardest part about writing Parent Hacks, the curation. There are over 4,000 posts on Parent Hacks, the blog. And so curating it… And I think it makes sense to even talk at this point about how when I started Parent Hacks, there was no sense of blogs as money making vehicles or even professional vehicles.

David: Exactly.

Asha: It was literally just, we’re blogging, we’re blogging. We’re not thinking about content and how it hangs together and how it links together. So it wasn’t particularly organized, which is fine. It was an organic process.

Asha: So going through all of that content was a massive job, and I have to say, I had really wonderful help. A community member named Adrian was the first person to help me. She was a blog reader and contributor from practically the beginning. And I called her up and I said, “Can I hire you for a little job? What do you think? You know Parent Hack’s content almost as well as I do. How about you help me with the first pass?” And so she helped me and there was a massive crazy spreadsheet, and it took so long and it was really hard. I mean it was a massive challenge.

Asha: And it’s funny if you look at the book now, if you were to go to the bookstore right now, and pick it up, and flip through it, you’d think to yourself, “It probably took her 15 minutes to write this book.” Oh, man.

David: So not the truth.

Asha: Well and Workman, I think reached out to me in 2014, the book didn’t come out until 2016. It really represents a long time and a lot of work. And you also asked about the illustration and that was another big, big reason why I was excited to work with a really well-established publisher to create this book.

Workman Publishing really knows how to create beautiful objects. They’re not just books, they’re objects that you want to pick up and look through because they’re beautifully designed.

David: So true.

Asha: And so they actually found the illustrator, whose name is Craighton Berman, based in Chicago. Unbelievable illustrator and at the time, relatively new dad. So he also sort of understood just from his own personal perspective what was going on with those illustrations, and he just… What can I say, I mean the illustrations really make the book.

Marion: They certainly do. There are so many good lessons in that. The idea that you keep testing your material online, that you kept hacking, you kept writing on the blog while you thought about writing a book is so encouraging I think, and such a good lesson. That you didn’t take the first book offer the came along, which I think a lot of people do.

David: Yes.

Marion: But that you waited and you knew that there was something that had to be in place for that. And that when you did wait and you found the right publisher, obviously Workman is the absolute perfect publisher for this. That they supplied the illustrator and that the illustrator comes to it from the same planet, that he had young kids. So that if you wait, if you keep putting your good material out there, that it’s much more possible to get the right publisher, and the right publisher as defined by somebody who understands the illustrations. Somebody who shows up with an illustrator who’s on your planet. These are really, really good lessons. Because I think the rush to publish is just the kiss of death.

David: Exactly. And I think this is what I admire so much, because with you it was about intent. It’s too often I hear people say, “I want to write a book. I’ll start a blog so therefore I can get a book deal.” And the blog becomes a vehicle for a book as opposed to the basis and the core, and the material that will then eventually become a book.

And you weren’t even thinking book when you started doing the blog. And I think that’s what made it so rich, and the material so rich, so distinct. And therefore when it became a book, and you put it into the book, it really does sing what you put in there.

Asha: Thank you. Thank you. It’s sort of interesting to hear you frame it that way, as writers. Because you’re right, I wasn’t thinking about it at that time. And the only thing I would add to what you said is that it’s not just the material and the content, it really is the readership and the community.

Asha: I guess at this point you could say audience, at the time, I did not feel like I was writing for an audience. I felt like I was part of that community. So it was sort of like, “Hey guys.” It wasn’t like, “Allow me to bestow upon you these hacks.” It wasn’t like that at all.

David: Exactly.

Asha: But I think that’s the other really important piece of this whole picture, when you’re talking about being a writer and having a blog.

David: And I think what makes it so powerful too, is that as you’re saying, you’re not there on high telling people what to do and how to be better parents. You’re really acting as a mouthpiece for all these parents, who have come to you with these different ideas, and therefore it is so genuine. It’s so authentic and so rooted in the act of being a parent, that just makes it… Even for someone like me, who’s not a parent, does not want to be a parent, I was delighted by so much of what I saw, and so much of what I read.

Marion: Well, it comes from having a true north. In other words, when people tell me they want to write a bestseller, I know I’m in trouble.

David: Yes, exactly.

Marion: When people tell me that they have a book that’s inspired by, and then they give me a description of a real experience that they had that they value, and that they have some perspective on, I know we’ve got something to work with. So that authenticity thing, despite the fact that that poor word has been beaten to death in this generation, that authenticity thing is in there.

So let me ask you about privacy because you had children. How did they feel about their mama putting it out there? I mean, not that you were writing directly from home, but it’s got a very home-based feel to it. Like I’ve wiped fake tattoos off my kids with baby wipes kind of feel. So what was the feedback you got from your kids, and what kind of permission did you ask to write from your home, if any?

Asha: Good question for memoir writers, for sure.

Marion: Yep.

Asha: Well, so one thing that… There are a few ways to answer that. First of all, Parent Hacks was always a sort of community resource blog. It specifically was not a let me film the inside of my house and show you everything that we do kind of blog. It was never really that revelatory. In fact, I didn’t generally refer to my kids by name. I really was sort of shining the light outward more than shining the light on my own family. So it wasn’t much of an issue because we were talking about tips, like, here’s what worked for me. There wasn’t a lot of… I don’t think there were a lot of privacy issues at that time. Now that said, as my kids got older…

So I didn’t ask them for permission when they were little. I just didn’t, I figured it was sort of like talking about how you cook something, or how you clean something, or how you organize something. It’s not particularly like a privacy problem. Now as I got older, and as the kids got older that is, and I wrote infrequently, but every now and then I wrote about sort of what was going on with us as a family. I actually, I was pretty, guarded isn’t the right word, but I really did keep a lid on it in terms of how much I revealed, I think. I feel comfortable revealing more about myself than I did about my kids, so I think that was another thing that I did.

But I really do think that all parents wrestle with this, although it’s funny, I think this conversation is also a little bit informed by the time that I was blogging because at that time, most of that time was before social media. There wasn’t really this whole, let’s document everything that we do culture.

David: Exactly.

Asha: And also people didn’t have smart phones and so there was no photographing everything all the time. It’s just you’re not going to walk around with a camera all the time. You know? In fact, those early parent hacks, when people would send me photos, they literally would take a picture. If they had a digital camera, take a picture with their digital camera, get the picture onto their computer, email me. It wasn’t like it is now with this very quick pace of sharing.

Marion: Yes.

Asha: So anyway, I guess the end of that story really happens now, which is because right now I am writing a lot more personally, and my children are young adults and teenagers, and I talk to them very clearly about, “Okay, this is what I’m going to write about. Are you okay with this? Are you okay with that?” And most of the time they are.

Marion: Fascinating. So the territory that you’ve mapped out has come to you really organically. You’ve thought about what you were doing, that shared community aspect didn’t require, nor would it benefit by that personal touch. And I love that. I mean, you seem to really understand brand, but literally brand within brand. In other words, yes this is parenting, but you set up some pretty close by picket fences initially, in terms of your own sharing, and you’ve broadened that as you go forward. I love that. And I think that that’s what people forget. You’ve got to ask these questions of yourself, who’s writing this story? And that is the single most important question that you can ask starting out. And you wrote it with a very professional tone. And I always wondered if your kids thought, “Oh no, she’s telling our secrets, but she’s putting it behind this hack thing.”

No, it’s a contemporary feel of community that we get. You’re right. And it works beautifully. It’s so interesting to me how we deploy our expertise. And in your case, you’ve deployed it in stages almost to support this brand. So these days you’ve got this podcast, where you’ve broadened yet again what you’re sharing and what you’re talking about. And this is the Edit Your Life podcast, that has a great sense of decluttering your home. What is it you declutter your home schedule, and mental space without getting bogged down by, wait for it, David, perfection.

David: I know.

Marion: Perfection, David.

David: Perfection. I love that.

Marion: David and I have had talks about what perfection does in our lives. So let’s talk about that. How did you evolve to that place, which is a different territory, a broader territory altogether?

Asha: Well, in fact that evolution points to a different book. And it before that pointed to a really wonderful friendship I made because of the internet. So in 2013, I co-wrote a book called Minimalist Parenting, with my very dear friend, Christine Koh. There’s a whole long story behind that book, which maybe someday I can tell you, but it was a really wonderful book. I actually wrote it before Parent Hacks, and with Christine. And it really just sort of detailed this, keep it simple philosophy that she and I had come to in our own very different ways. We’re very different people. Sort of the contours of our lives are different, but we’re very similar on some really key ways, and we just love each other dearly.

Anyway, we wrote this book, Minimalist Parenting. It was a wonderful experience and we realized we had so much more to say about it. And so a couple of years later, we decided to just keep talking about that topic, but expand upon it. It’s not just about parenting, it really is a philosophy of getting rid of the unnecessary stuff in your life, so that there’s more room for the things that you really care about, and trusting yourself to be able to make those decisions. So that’s where the podcast came about.

Marion: It’s lovely. And so the whole “throw things out that don’t give you joy,” the whole Marie Kondo thing is… Is to me, you had a much better feel than that. That’s not my, I actually think I get a lot of joy from everything that I’m surrounded by, but I kind of live in an old curiosity shop, like an old fashioned writer.

David: Yeah, you do.

Marion: Yeah. If you could see this office right now, you’d say, “Oh dear.” Or you’d say, “Huh,” but you probably wouldn’t say, “That looks healthy.” So we’re decluttering our heads here. Our mental. I mean you’re definitely decluttering your home and your schedule, but the mental space piece. Let’s work with all three of those. I guess I’m trying to pussyfoot around the question. I guess your office is decluttered, like you don’t look like my office. Is that what you’re telling me?

Asha: Oh, what a joke. If only you could look right now at my desk. Marion, I think you and I might be little soul buddies. I love stuff all over the place, and I like open… I like those kitchens, when you go in, you can see everyone’s dishes, and all their spice racks and cookbooks.

David: Oh my god. No, no, no.

Asha: Sorry, David. Oh yeah. No, no, no. This is not about perfect empty spaces, and one chair in the middle of the room, and soft bells ringing or anything.

Marion: Phew.

Asha: Nothing like that. Well Christine and I both think that it really starts with sort of looking internally and saying what matters to me? What do I love? And if what you love is pictures on every wall, and stuff all over your desk that reminds you of wonderful memories, that is what you love and that’s what you make room for. You just get rid of the stuff that’s getting in the way of that.

Asha: And so that’s really what Edit Your Life is all about. It’s not about a particular aesthetic. We do not somehow feel that the less stuff you have, sort of more morally superior you are. It’s none of that.

David: Right.

Asha: Sometimes, I don’t know, sometimes it comes across like that. I’m not saying Marie Kondo… I actually, I read her book a very long time ago, and I feel like she’s found something that really works for her. You can really tell she is super into it and great. I mean her sort of method isn’t for me, but it definitely is for her, and for a bunch of other people. But I think our message is a bit sort of more far reaching.

David: And what I find fascinating about the blog, about the book, about the podcast, Marion talked about branding, and what’s interesting is that I think a lot of people start out with a brand, and then they fill in underneath that umbrella, all these different elements that are my brand, this is my brand, that’s not my brand. And I think what you’ve done, and I think some of the most successful, I really don’t like to use the word brands, out there, have done what you’ve done, which is you just put yourself out there, your personality out there, your beliefs and thoughts out there. And then those people will stick to you. They’ll hue to what you’re saying, who agree with you. And those who don’t simply don’t.

David: But it doesn’t sound like it was a conscious act to create what you’ve done. You’ve just created it. And then a brand sort of evolved and sprung around it. And that I think is again, one of those words that I don’t like to use authentic, but I think that’s what draws the people to you, and draws the readership and the communities that you had. And that becomes long lasting, when it’s really true to the person and the core of that person.

Asha: Well, I would love to riff on that a little bit, David, because that word authentic. I know, Marion, you said earlier it’s sort of been beaten to death, but I have to say that not only is it… I don’t think, first of all I could be any other way. I don’t really think I could. I could never be a YouTube star or like an Instagram perfection person. I just don’t think I could do it. That’s the first thing. Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t do it.

Asha: But second of all, the thing about authenticity and being who you are, which by the way is not the same as like oversharing and letting it all hang out.

David: Exactly.

Asha: It’s not like you have to cross some sort of vulnerability line and put yourself in emotional jeopardy. That’s not what what authenticity is to me. But what it does for me, is it allows me to… The internet is a human place and people forget that sometimes. People think about it as this sort of moneymaking machine, or sort of an attention… A stage or something. It’s really a human connection machine, if you let it be that.

And authenticity and just sort of being myself and letting this brand evolve, and by the way, change as I change, that allows me to actually be a human as well. Because as soon as we take that away, then not only are we treating our readers like numbers, we start treating ourself like a number. We start treating ourself like a cog in our own machine. And that’s not good. It makes people anxious. It makes people freak out. Relationships end because of these sorts of things.

A lot of people don’t know what to do when they gain internet success because suddenly there’s all this attention. I personally, I really truly believe that bringing our humanity to what we do online is what is going to actually bring us closer together.

David: I agree with you.

Marion: I love that.

David: And I think what’s interesting about what you’re saying also is that you will never need to “rebrand yourself” because you’re just being yourself. And I think people do follow people and become fans of, and enjoy reading people who were on their own personal growth path.

Asha: I agree. But I will say that, that doesn’t mean that I’m going to maintain my level of audience. Certainly there are plenty of people that followed me over the years for the parent hacks, and it’s like, “Okay, I don’t really need to listen to Asha, talk about her approaching empty nest.” And that’s great.

So, it’s not to say that the size of my audience will stay the same, or my ability to make an income will stay the same. I mean, I am fortunate to be in a position to allow… For there to be some flexibility there. And so what that does allow though is it does allow the right people to come and find me.

And you’re right, there are those people that have followed me from the beginning and continue to follow me. And interestingly because it’s almost like our kids have grown up together.

Marion: Oh, I love that.

Asha: But there are other people who are probably just finding me for the first time now, or other people that are like, “Yeah, she was great seven years ago.” So that’s all good. But what it does for me is it allows me to still be who I am and not feel like I have to fit into some box that I outgrew along time ago.

Marion: That’s wonderful.

David: It is.

Marion: Well, thank you so much for bringing this. I think everyone who listens to this will learn that the agility is something that you’ve absolutely mastered. The agility to change, the agility to move. The ability to be agile and move through these various platforms is so inspiring, Asha. And I knew that the minute I met you, you just beam out this energy that’s deeply compelling, but it’s a joy to hear how you put it to work. So thank you so much for coming along with us today.

Asha: I appreciate the chance to talk to you about it. I think that just talking to you has made me realize things that I never even realized before. So thank you for asking such good questions.

Marion: That was Asha Dornfest, author of Parent Hacks: 134 Genius Shortcuts For Life With Kids, found wherever books are sold, and cohost of the essential podcast, which I absolutely listen to every single episode, Edit Your Life. Please join us again and please remember to subscribe so you can go with us everywhere we go, and we can go with you everywhere you go.

Have you got a question you’d like us to answer or to ask our authors? Send it along to us and we’ll choose a few each week and answer them on QWERTY. Just drop me a line at my contact page. 

Want more of a writing education? Come join me in one of my online memoir classes. They run all the time and all of them will help you get where you want to go in your work.