How to Tell The Truth in Memoir, with Gregg McBride

HOW TO TELL THE TRUTH in memoir is a topic I spend a lot of time discussing in my role as a memoir coach and teacher, and it’s one I have waited a long time to discuss with author Gregg McBride. Gregg is a film and television writer and producer, a motivational coach and speaker, and the author of the books Weightless: My Life as a Fat Man and How I Escaped and Just Stop Eating So Much. He is the writer for a terrific Hallmark Christmas movie and a featured blogger for the Huffington Post and Psychology Today. Listen in and read along as Gregg and I discuss how to tell the truth in memoir.

Marion: Hi, Gregg. How are you?

Gregg: I’m doing great. Happy to be here.

Marion: Delighted to have you. So, this is a podcast for writers, and in each episode I try to give them some real insights into how to have a writing life by teasing out from each guest an area of real expertise. And I’ve really been looking forward to talking with you specifically about telling the truth when we write. So, how about it? Shall we talk a little truth, Gregg? Think we can do that?

Gregg: I think we can.

Marion: Good. So, let’s set this up a bit. You’ve written two books that are about getting at the core of one’s issues as illustrated by your own life and weight, as well as lots of columns for both the Huffington Post and Psychology Today, all of which had this, not only a really refreshing honesty about abuse, the clever damage done in families and the resulting loss of voice, finding one’s voice and yay, brighter, using that voice for good, but you really seem to feel comfortable with telling us the truth. So, I’d like you to just dial it back and take us to a time when you decided to start telling the truth.

Gregg: Well, that’s a great question. Anyone that’s read my book knows that part of my past is some extreme child abuse. And one of the things that was interesting about my mother is that she was a pathological liar. And I think in hindsight, really believed some of what she was saying, but she would set up these houses of cards that would then eventually come toppling down, but she was just quite a liar and was doing it for whatever reason. And we would get in trouble, my sister and I, if we didn’t play along and often we didn’t even know the lie, but we would somehow undo it and get into trouble. And so, truth really became a focus for me. And I even realized when I was in college, in the early years, that I was starting to maybe white lie a little more than I thought I should be.

And so, knowing what my mother became and how much a part of that was her life, that’s I think when the first… The birth of honesty, just true, true, true honesty came forward in myself and I just made decision, that is not going to be me, I’m going to be a truth teller.

Marion: And we’re so glad because the truth has consequences when you write it, when you write about it. I’ve written a lot about this, so have you. So, what would you say to aspiring writers on the topic of what happens first when you start to write and publish your truth?

Gregg: Well, I would say to prepare to be terrified because you are really ripping off the layers of yourself and exposing yourself to the world and that’s as true if you’re writing really good fiction or if you’re writing non-fiction. I mean, it’s those dark places that we shed light on that then begin to resonate with other people. And again, that can be as true if you’re trying to entertain someone or if you’re trying to get somebody to have some deep thoughts or help them to grow or share your experiences so that it might inspire others.

Marion: So, it really begins when you start writing, before you publish, that revelation to oneself is what you mentioned first. And that I always say to people, be really prepared to find out what you really think. Most of us talk like this, “Oh my God, Gregg, like you’ve got to go to this restaurant I went to last night, it was like so good. It was like really, really good.” During what you learned, nothing, right? And when we write about, even if it’s the restaurant that we went to, let’s say it’s literally just a restaurant review, you learn why you liked it. Similarly with faith or love or abuse, we drill in and it’s surprising, but it’s a huge responsibility, isn’t it, to kind of capture that awareness?

Gregg: It is. And it means taking a risk, but writing is an art form and that’s what we’re doing. We’re trying to, I just use this phrase, but shed light on areas that people may be familiar with, but haven’t looked at in a particular way. And when I set out to write Weightless, I knew that I was going to be very honest, key word, about my mother and my father and the abuse that they inflicted. But as I started to really work on the book, I remembered that I needed to be just as honest about myself because again, in my college years I have sort of taken on the abuse myself. I was no longer living at home and I had found a good way to just keep that sickness in perpetual mode. And so, I literally took a post-it note and wrote, “Authenticity” and stuck it to my computer screen. And so, that was something that I always saw when I was writing.

Marion: I do stuff like that too. And I advise my writers that I work with to do it. If I’ve got my key argument, if I know what I’m arguing and all non-fiction of course is an argument, and if I know what I’m arguing and I’m arguing something about, let’s say mercy, I will literally put the word mercy on a post-it note and stick it to my computer. So, I remind myself not to go too far a field when I start to write and I try to drill into that and stay there and live in that place. I love that. I love that you did that. And I think people don’t realize that that’s what it takes. I think these small steps, reminders, scribbling a word on your palm and following yourself, looking at your palm all day when you’re just trying to keep it straight, whatever it takes, right? And that’s what’s so interesting about this.

And what the truth can and cannot do is one of my favorite topics. It fascinates me. And you write in one of your many and really could, I have to say, I love your Huffington Post and your Psychology Today, columns, but you write in one of the really pointed post columns, that quote, “There will be times when even after we’ve moved on people who haven’t, perhaps even our abusers, will force us to once again get mired down in the process that requires us to extract ourselves from otherwise horrific situations, even if just memories from our past.” And so, the idea that not everybody moves on when you tell the truth, can you just talk about that a little bit? I think it’s a good thing for people to honestly understand.

Gregg: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s important to remember that we, as writers, are telling our truth. And as long as we’re honest about that, that’s what counts. I mean, everybody has a version of their own story. And as a child, I didn’t quite define it this way, but as I got older, I realized that my mom was kind of a monster. I mean, the things that she did and the kind of torture literally that she inflicted on my sister and I was quite horrific, but I also, as I got older and started to look at life and my experiences through a more nuanced eye, I realized that she was living in fear.

She was terrorized and doing what she thought she had to do to survive. And that doesn’t excuse, necessarily what she did to her children, myself and my sister, but it, again, reveals some honesty that’s there and allowed me as a writer to really… A book about hatred or a book about vengeance, wouldn’t help anyone, but a book about enlightenment and my journey might inspire someone else, than those are slivers of light, right? That’s the kind of thing that resonates with people.

Marion: The slippery slope would go down when first we start to write the book where, “I’m going to set the record straight. I’m going to tell, I’m going to say,” or “I’m going to get revenge. I’m going to show her for what she is,” is a place of enormous revelation if you’re paying attention, that you realize that A, you can’t get revenge, it doesn’t actually work that way. And that it’s a thankless task. Did you start on a slope that was a bit more dangerous or revelatory to you and then gather all this awareness? I mean, or did you start with this open heart of understanding that you were, what you wanted, what you’ve learned along the way was what she wanted to cover and not just merely setting the record straight?

Gregg: Was I born perfect? Yes, I was, Marion. Yes, I was. No. In fact…

Marion: I’m so glad to meet someone who is…

Gregg: I love that you asked that question because I started working on Weightless long before I sold it. And I knew that I wanted a book to talk about the mental weight of being heavy, not necessarily just the physical weight. And so, it took a while to find a publisher that got hip to that. Well, when I finally sold it and went back to my original notes, I saw that the version of the book I was writing was very angry. And while somebody might say “Yes, he had every right to be,” I realized I wasn’t going to intrigue or even move a reader with that kind of book. And so, I even took it a step further, as you know, having graciously read the book, is I even invited people that knew me during different segments of their life to share their reflections of what the experience was for them.

For example, I have this great story of when I was very overweight, that I took my girlfriend to a movie theater and broke a movie seat during the movie in a crowded theater. It was just awful. And so, I share the story and I do it with some humor because that’s a part of me, but I had her write about it as well. And so, to give the reader all this perspective, it’s almost like you’re a lawyer presenting the facts and you can do it with flavor, but you’ve got to leave room for the reader to make their interpretation as well.

Marion: Yeah. It’s really wonderful. And your dark humor is gorgeous. I absolutely love your dark humor. Does it make it easier to tell the truth if you’ve acquired a sense of dark humor? Some people I think are a little afraid that the dark humor they’ve acquired after because of abuse, because of the stark witnessing that they’re able to reckon with, they think, “Oh, well, other people won’t be comfortable with this.” So, talk about owning that dark humor a little bit, would you please?

Gregg: Sure. Well, it certainly became a defense mechanism for me being funny, being the funny fat guy and it was also part of my talents, just I was writing from a very young age, it was a way that I expressed myself. I think that anything like food for me, the famous slogan, “Less is more,” I think that that could be true for dark humor as well. I think it should be measured. And you’ve got to be careful. And as creators, it’s kind of a weird atmosphere right now, right? Because it’s the PC police are very tuned in, but sometimes as creators, we need to step over the line before we can get back to the line and really, really express ourselves. So, if you do have dark humor, I think that’s great. I encourage it. I have it myself, but know who you can test it with, have a very safe test audience to measure some of that stuff with.

Marion: Yeah, it’s fascinating because I wrote a book about how to write memoir. It came out in 2011. It’s been… I got the great opportunity like you did from my publisher to update it and put new pages in. And I wrote an essay into the new version that is called “Mexican Night at the Nursing Home.” My mother was 49 when she got Alzheimer’s disease. When she was 54, I had to put her in a nursing home. And one of my great breakdowns, amid many in that period, was going to the nursing home and they had put her in a sombrero and it was Mexican night, and I just spectacularly lost it. And I didn’t have the courage in the first version of the book to write that piece because it’s very, very dark, but I had the courage the second time around to write it.

And I think you’re right about the dark humor, it’s a measured experience and you need to understand what you’re doing as you apportion it. It’s almost like you have to deploy it with some care, but you also have to grow into it because you’ve absolutely got to own it. Hmm. I hadn’t really thought of it in that term, but that’s very helpful. You are very helpful. You’re helpful. And I love that.

Gregg: Wonderful.

Marion: As a writer.. You’re very, very helpful. And my favorite column of yours, it’s like… I saw it and I went, “No, he’s not taking that on, is he?” And it’s entitled to self-acceptance mean we don’t have to lose weight. And I was, I mean, this is it. I don’t understand self-acceptance. And I think a lot of people don’t and you write about it, plainly spoken and again, deploying sort of this knowledge along the way, but I got to just ask you, wow, how did you go to that one? Because that’s a really tricky place, this self-acceptance thing. I mean, we do say, especially about people who are maintaining a morbidly obese body and you lost 275 pounds, I mean, this is an extraordinary story. Talk to us a little bit about how you got to the comfort of writing about self-acceptance the way you did.

Gregg: Well. I’m a firm believer in self-acceptance, and I love that we are seeing more of that in the media now. When I first moved to Los Angeles and was trying to sell scripts with overweight people in it, people would say, “Oh, we love it. But we can’t, we will never find an actress to play that role.” As if fat people didn’t exist, “We can get them on Mars.” So, it’s been an interesting journey in regard to that. But I will also say that as somebody that was very heavy and as somebody that thinks about it all the time and really wants to be fit and healthy and live a full and vital life, I know that there is a tricky balance between self-acceptance and just saying, “What the heck. I’m not going to try anymore.”

And so, there can be fit and healthy versions of being overweight. And self-acceptance, if it’s really true and authentic, I think that’s our key word today, Marion, if it’s really authentic is going to help us evolve, whether that means losing some excess weight or getting out of a bad relationship or writing the book that we keep putting off, whatever it is. It’s that self-esteem that’s going to help us do it, but it can’t just be the bumper sticker poster child version of it, which I think sometimes today’s media sells.

Marion: I do too. And that’s what I loved about your piece, is you dug in, and it’s not this just, “Be yourself.” And because everybody wants the lessons to how to do that. And you have this great phrase. You say, “If we lived as if we had done this thing,” in your case, taking off and keeping off the weight, the as if it’s a lovely little phrase, I’d get it on a whatever, needle pointed on a pillow if I could find the time to needle point again, not going to get in on a tattoo, but it’s a gorgeous thing. Live as if, do you also apply that to the things you want to write? I mean, do you push yourself into that place? Is that how you got to the best version of that self-acceptance piece?

Gregg: I think so. I mean, anything that I write is something that intrigues me. I’ll forever be that 13 year old boy that was sitting in a movie theater watching trailers and getting excited about a movie. And so, it’s the same, whether I’m working on a fiction or nonfiction piece and the columns that I’m lucky enough to get to write and share, I know that if I’m inspired, I’m hopefully going to trigger something in someone else that gets them inspired. And I always try and write for a wide audience. When I wrote Weightless, I wanted it to be something that somebody could read, even if they didn’t have a problem with excess weight, I wanted it to be a journey and that they could maybe apply it to themselves. So, if there’s a universal message at the core of whatever you’re working on, I think that’s all the better. It’s just, you’re going to just speak to people and change lives or get them thinking, and that’s such a gift to be able to do that.

Marion: I think the universal is the absolute core of all memoir. I always say, “It’s about X, it’s about something universal, as illustrated by Y, your story, to be told in a Z. It’s about X, as illustrated by Y, to be told in the Z. It’s about something universal as illustrated by something deeply personal to be told in some length piece.” And I found your work to be as inspiring for any one of the issues in which I need self-acceptance or change as I could because of your language and your honesty, your dark humor and your wisdom. So, I genuinely believe it’s got to have the universal.

So, let’s talk about the turnaround time on the truth a little bit. I read that your husband lost his job. And then I read one of your columns in which you discuss things to say and not to say to someone who is unemployed. So, how long after he lost his job, for instance, were you comfortable writing about that? I mean, people always say to me, “How long do I have to wait before I’m smart on this subject?” And what would you say to that question?

Gregg: Well, I’m not sure I’m smart on any subject, but I have my moments after a good, strong cup of coffee. My husband has lost his job more than once in today’s economy. Nothing is solid, nothing is sturdy. And again, I got to a place where, back to authenticity, Marion, people would say things and they could be short things, but you could tell if there was sincerity behind it, but the bumper sticker stuff just really did not help, “Oh, he’ll find something even better.” And I understand that people are afraid and trying to, doing what they think helps, but that inauthentic response actually doesn’t help. It hurts. And so, I thought, you know what? I’m going to write about this.

But again, it’s got to be delicate, right? You don’t want to put off the people that your message is for, right? You’ve already got your audience with you, who’s been through it or who understands it, but you want to somehow speak to people that have been going through it themselves. And it’s interesting, that column, because it sort of falls outside of the weight loss, self-improvement themes that I most often write about, but I got so much feedback on that from people who were happy to have something that they could share with others and not in a way like, “Hey, here’s what you’re doing wrong. You need to read this,” but in, “Here’s a little perspective for you.”

Marion: Yeah. I didn’t think it was outside of your area of expertise at all. I’m fascinated by your brand, to use a word that we don’t use nearly enough for writers, and I think we need to sometimes. You lost over 275 pounds, you kept them off, you wrote books about it. Now you write from a place of knowledge about change and food and keeping the best parts of yourself nourished, so for me, that’s your brand. What do you think about the word brand? And do you have one? I mean, that’s the way it looked like to me, but I could have this way wrong.

Gregg: Well, Marion, once again, as with all your compliments, you are absolutely correct. I tease. No, I think brand is important and I think it’s a double-edged sword, but I think today it’s more important than ever. I run up against that in Hollywood all the time. People want to know, what is your brand? Why should you be writing this story? And the same is true for books. Publishers and editors are going to want to know, what are you bringing to this party? What is your unique perspective? And that goes back to going to some of the dark places and being authentic. But having a brand, I think can really help a writer build an audience, which is ultimately going to give them more freedom in regards to what they can or want to write in the future.

Marion: Yeah. That’s gorgeous. And I completely agree with you. And you’re now on my favorite meditation app, Inside Timer. So, now I have you in my head, which I really appreciate. But it’s really kind of funny. It’s like, “I think I’ll take a bath and have him in my head.”

Gregg: There you go.

Marion: So, it really makes me want to ask you about how far and wide do you want to go with that brand? And I think it’s fabulous and appropriate that you’re on Inside Timer, but you just kind of answered the question. Where’s your comfort level? When they approached you or you approached them, did that just seem like, “Oh, I could do… That’s just absolutely still in this bowl of my brand.”?

Gregg: Yeah, I think so. I mean, as an artist, I always want to stretch and meditation, guiding meditations takes quite a bit of writing skill to do it correctly, in my opinion. And I felt like, these days, I feel like I want to go where I don’t feel like I’m a salmon swimming upstream. So, I always want to try new things, but I’ll see like, how is this going to flow? And so, the meditation aspect of things has flowed very nicely. Insight Timer has been just wonderful. The feedback I’ve gotten is great. And it’s also an opportunity to bring some exposure to Weightless, which I think it’s a story I really wanted to write so that I could share and help people. And so, whatever can benefit that and help get that message out, I’m happy to do it.

Marion: I agree with you. I mean, I’ve started this podcast because I wanted to have conversations with writers. And now during a COVID, I’m particularly very, very glad that I did because I’m seeing so few people. But I believe that that the meditation app, which, and I agree with you because we all have listened to ones that are badly written and we just turn them off in five seconds. It’s like, “Oh God, no.” So, I think that the ability to take your brand and expose yourself, your writing, to virtually a new audience, is just exactly right, and bring them to Weightless, which is such a good message.

Other ways we do that are writing these pieces, like your Psychology Today, the Huff Post, it looks like you’ve been on Psychology Today since 2014, perhaps. So, let’s talk a little bit about that, sort of a chicken and egg question. Are you testing material in a short form? Are you promoting your book? My writers that I work with get stumped, “What do I do first?” They say to me, “I just want to write this book.” And I say to them, “Well, you might want to start writing some essays, some op-eds, getting some following, getting your name out there, compounding that name on the internet.” And they say, “Oh, I don’t think I can write a version of it short and long.” And I try to get them to be a bit more comfortable with that. So, writers get really stumped when they try to figure out which to do when and why. So, what are you doing? Are you testing your material when you write those short columns? Are you promoting the book? Is it both?

Gregg: It initially started out as an opportunity to promote the book. To get to write for Psychology Today was such an honor and still is. Nowadays, it’s becomes kind of a short expression. I don’t, I have several books in me, but that have not hit paper yet just because of my other obligations. But it’s a way to express, it’s a way to help, it’s a way to shed light on things. But I think that what you advise other writers is so true. You, going back to brand, you’ve got to build it. The first thing a publisher is going to do is Google your name and you don’t want them to just pull up your social media profile. You want them to see that maybe you have a blog or maybe you’ve done some essays for somewhere or some short stories, anything that shows them that you are building an audience, because even people that read books now, sometimes, are going to Google an author and just see, what is this person about?

And so, if you are contributing to that and helping to build it the way you want to build it, you’re going to achieve a lot more success. And also people are going to trust your voice more. They’re going to be less cautious, ask a few less questions and be like, “You know what? This person knows what they’re doing. I want their voice.”

Marion: Those are so many very good points. And I agree with you completely. It allows people to see that you can do the work and you have done the work for, in Hollywood, just to switch to another platform, for such big names, as BET, Disney, Paramount, Sony, Hallmark, Freeform, Nickelodeon, Comedy Central, MTV. But your Hallmark hall of fame movie, A Heavenly Christmas premiered to the highest ratings for an original movie in the history of the Hallmark Channel. So, if I didn’t mention that, it would be like, so wrong of me. First, I want to know, did something about telling your truth liberate you to have this writing life that’s so broad? Let’s just start there and get back to the truth for a moment. And then you just got to tell us what it’s like to have such a cool thing happened.

Gregg: Well, absolutely because even in a fiction story, there’s going to be moments of truth, and that’s what really resonates. And Heavenly Christmas was actually a very fun Christmas movie idea about somebody who we think passes away and just doesn’t like Christmas at all, and then has to come back to earth as a Christmas angel, but they know nothing about Christmas. But what I did was is I wove into it that the person who this angel is trying to help has recently lost his sister named Becky and who he was in a musical act with and he can’t perform anymore. And Becky happens to be the name of my mother-in-law, who at the time I was writing the movie, was dying of cancer and she’s no longer with. And at the end of the movie, spoiler alert, you find out that Becky, his sister, the character, Becky, is the one who assigned the angel. She was behind it the whole time, she wanted her brother to move on.

And so, right, you pull those heartstrings, but you also have these funny moments, where this person who doesn’t like Christmas is having to learn it along the way. And in terms of being a fan boy, just for a second, I will say that it was such an amazing experience. It’s a Hallmark hall of fame movie, which means that it’s a little bit different than Hallmark’s typical fare. The budget is bigger and the cast is usually bigger. And we were lucky enough to get Kristin Davis, Eric McCormack and Shirley MacLaine. And when I found out that Shirley MacLaine was going to be reciting my dialogue, I got to tell you… And what’s funny is she would give interviews. Boy, you talk about somebody that is present and authentic.

And I’m like, “Oh my gosh, this is the Academy award-winning, Shirley MacLaine. What’s she going to think of this script? Blah, blah, blah.” When she would give interviews, she would tell people that she was sure that the role of Pearl, which she played, was written for her. And between us and everyone listening, don’t tell, it was not. I had another actor in mind, believe it or not. But she could not have been more gracious. You look at that, an artist of her caliber being gracious to a writer she never heard of, she didn’t have to mention the script, but she’s just a genuinely gracious person. And so, to have a star like that in the movie is great, to have the movie have the rating success that it has is great, to hear from people all year long who tell me they watched that movie to cheer themselves up, especially right now during the pandemic, is wonderful.

And when I think about that that movie was born out of learning that my mother-in-law was going to pass on, at a very early age, she was only 60. And she did get to see the movie before she passed. So, it’s from that very painful place became this very beautiful experience. And if you’ll allow me just real quickly. I went into Hallmark, it was a general meeting and it had been changed three times, which happens often for general meetings because there’s just no reason to have them, but they do. The day I went in, the day before, a project had fallen out, and they needed a project. And so, they asked, “Do you have any ideas?” And I just pitched the idea and the rest is history.

So, to all the writers out there with book ideas, with whatever it is, memoirs, movies, columns, I’m telling you, keep that dream alive and do it with authenticity. Because even what might seem like a fluffy Christmas movie, if it has a heart at its core, authenticity at its core, I’ll go back to our key word, Marion, it’s going to live, it’s going to take wings. Ha, how’s that for full circle?

Marion: Whoa, you just did that. Well. That was perfect. And thank you. I think those are the best words to leave this with, to encourage people to dig in and tell their tales. Thank you, Gregg. That was just lovely.

Gregg: Thank you so much. I really am happy to be with you.

Marion: Well, it was a joy and I so appreciate it. That’s Gregg McBride, and you can reach him at his blog, juststopeatingsomuch dot com, at Psychology Today, the Huffington Post and his books, Just Stop Eating So Much and Weightless, wherever books are sold. And do watch his fabulous Hallmark movie, A Heavenly Christmas. I’m Marion Roach Smith, and you’ve been listening to Qwerty. Subscribe wherever podcasts are available. Qwerty is produced at Overit Studios in Albany, New York, reach them at overitstudios dot com. Our producer is Adam Claremont. Our assistant is Lorna Bailey. Want more on the art and work of writing? Visit marionroach dot com and take a class with me. And thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe to Qwerty and listen to it wherever you go.